Ashtavakra Samhita (Q&A)
Knowledge of the Self Chapter 15, vv 1 -11

Q&As – Ashtavakra Samhita Commentary with Shri Babaji
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Knowledge of the Self, Chapter 15  vv 1 -11, Babaji Q&A, No. 252
Recorded on 10 August 2025 with US participants

Agastya
Chapter 15, “Knowledge of the Self,” Verse One, Ashtavacra speaks.

“A student whose mind is pure and calm learns easily, even from teachings given casually by the guru. But one whose mind is unsettled and too active is bewildered in trying to learn, even though they spend their whole life trying.”

Baba
This is the first thing a guru wants, or you can call it demands, is the attention of the student. When a guru talks, even if he mentions anything casually, if the student is paying apt attention, totally concentrated, he can pick up the thread—when the technical things are spoken, or a clue is given. So that’s what Ashtavakra is also saying. This is what we have always felt. Perhaps I would have also told in my talks, that is important, paying attention.

Agastya
Baba, I’ll read the comments that you made in the text. When the Master teaches, if one can pay apt attention, listen carefully, it shall penetrate the inner layers of the mind. They can realize the truth easily.

Baba
Yes definitely. Concentration is so important when the master is teaching, Then it should enter the innermost layer of the mind, of the consciousness. Then you won’t forget. It will be there, always sitting there. Like any single word or few words, a sentence that my Guru Shiva Balayogi would have told, it is sitting in our consciousness, ringing in the ears all the time. I used to be just waiting for the time, whenever Swamiji used to come to the Dehradun Ashram, or I got a chance to go to him. I used to wonder what is it that Swamiji might like to convey. Something might suddenly come out of him, so I need to be very alert for that thing. At that time my mind should not be wavering or roaming here and there or with any other imaginations. It should not be paying attention to anything else that is happening other than what the Master is saying.

Agastya
Baba, you say this can happen if the mind is not corrupted. What is a corrupted mind and what causes the mind to be corrupted?

Baba
Corrupted means the same. It’s attention is elsewhere. It is imagining something else, and it is looking for something else, somewhere else. Like you are sitting, you are watching me. I am trying to talk to you, but your mind has gone to Manhattan in New York. That means at that time, the mind is corrupted, it is not paying attention to what the master is saying. Paying attention happens when the student has reverence for the master; with the reverence, fear and devotion combination also comes. That is important. Otherwise it won’t go to the head. Student might tell, ah, Babaji told something. He he told many times. Many students, keep writing emails. I tell something and they tell something else. That happens if they haven’t paid attention. Again, I have to explain. So pay attention. That’s what corrupting means. It (mind) is losing its ability to pay attention to the Master’s teachings, that’s when it becomes corrupted.

Agastya
So how can you uncorrupt it, so that you can pay attention?

Baba
Simply by paying attention by not allowing the mind to get attracted to anything else, and by setting a priority for what the master teaches. Suppose all the participants are here in the Zoom class today. They should be eagerly waiting. They should have an yearning. Oh, what question might come up for Babaji? What answer might Babaji give? We must be alert listening to him. What is he saying? What is he trying to convey. If that is there, then the corruption disappears. It gets uncorrupted, and the attention comes.

Agastya
So that is your sincere desire to learn, to know.

Baba
Very important. Very important. Yes, sincere desire, understanding the need. That’s why we always tell, student sincerity is also important. When such a student goes to the right master, he will not compromise for any low quality miracles or any entertaining talks by the guru. He will not be interested. He will be interested only the knowledge of the Self and knowledge of the Self.

Agastya
That’s this chapter, Baba (Self knowledge).

So verse two. “Non attachment to the illusory objects gives liberation. Attraction to the illusory objects leads to bondage. This is the simple truth. Now, do as you wish.”

Baba
Yeah, it is so simple. You see, it is so simple to understand. Material world is there, you get attached to them. All the time you are thinking, you are desiring, and you are visualizing. You want that and you are stressed and you are restless. You want that, so you bind yourself to that unhappiness. You are binding yourself, thus you are unhappy. Then you start thinking that this world is giving me unhappiness.

Baba
The world is neither giving any happiness, nor is it going to give you unhappiness. It is simply there. If you go after the world, if you want, then you feel unhappy. You are creating unhappiness to yourself. Then Ashtavakra says, Now it is your up to you, whatever you want to do you do. It means we are not trying to impose. We just try to say what the formula is, what the technology is. If you do like this, this will give you pain. Now it is up to you. You want to go after that you do, or if you want to liberate yourself, then you will be happy.

Agastya
I’ll read your commentary. I like it a lot. “It’s up to the disciple to decide whether he really wants self realization or wants to go on trying to enjoy the impermanent world, which gives more sorrows than happiness. If one can understand the impermanence of the world and its objects, only such a one can develop detachment and focus on sadhana. The master sternly warns the disciple that if one is going to be attached to the impermanent objects of the world, it gives rise to more bondage, and this bondage always makes one miserable and forces one to lose happiness and peace.

Baba
Yeah, we have always told you need happiness, so you need to look for a permanent thing that can give you a permanent happiness. A certain thing which itself is not permanent, like this universe, is impermanent, including your own physical body, how can these impermanent things give youpermanent happiness if itself is not going to be there. I am going to be happy with a mountain. One day somebody might come and break it to pieces, then I am unhappy. The world, one day somebody might drop a bomb and break earth into two. I am unhappy. So like that, if the thing is impermanent, you never know what’s going to happen, and then you are unhappy. So if you go for the permanent thing, which cannot be broken into pieces, which cannot be destroyed by nuclear bombs, which cannot be destroyed in any way by any weapon of the world. Not by any person of the world, anything, not even fire, nor any weapon, not even the waters, nothing can disturb that one. Even the air cannot disturb because it is beyond all these things. That permanent entity, if you go, then you get a permanent peace. Then your peace is secure, guaranteed, which nobody can disturb. Somebody can praise you. You are already happy. Somebody can criticize you. You are happy because you are already happy. Criticizing will not disturb your happiness or peace.

Agastya
Baba verse two speaks of gaining liberation, through non attachment to illusory objects. What is liberation in this context?

Baba
Here liberation—the mind with desires has become attached to the materialistic world. I want this property, I want this vehicle, I want this much money, like that. So it has bound itself. It is in bondage. It is looking for happiness all the time, imagining and wanting such things. Now, you silence the mind so that all the desires disappear, all thoughts and visions disappear, and you are liberated.

Agastya
Baba, this knowledge that you’re giving us, and knowledge like it, these texts, ancient texts, and things, help us dedicate time and understand the need for sadhana or spiritual practice. What else can we do to inspire ourselves to take time out, to do sadhana?

Baba
Take time out to be in the company of the Master, the company of spiritual seekers, so that you get influenced—your yearning for spirituality gets more support, more solidified. It becomes more solid. Yes, the path I have taken is right. Look, all these people are talking the same thing, they are also going on the same path. So I am on the right path. Like that, you get encouraged. Occasionally, you sit with the Master and chat like this by asking intelligent questions on the topic. And when the master talks, because Master will talk only when he knows that you are interested to listen. Otherwise, Master will remain quiet. You have to show interest that you want to listen from the master. Then the master can thoroughly clean your brain, wash your brain and prepare it for earning self knowledge.

Agastya
Baba, the term sadhana, we use a lot. Would you explain what sadhana means?

Baba
Literally, sadhana means your efforts to achieve. Here in spirituality, it is synonymous with your efforts to achieve Self Realization – that is sadhana You get rid of that to which the mind has attached unnecessarily, which is impermanent, which does not exist. Liberate it first, so that the mind can become one with its Self. For that, sadhana has to be done. Your efforts in that direction, as advocated, advised, taught by the Master, technically.

Agastya
Verse three. “Knowledge of this Truth turns one who is eloquent, wise and active, into one who is mute, inert and docile, so it is shunned by those who still wish to enjoy the world.”

Baba, I’ll read your commentary and then if you’d like to comment. In slokas three.

“The master tells another truth. A person who would be worldly wise and shrewd with active participation to achieve worldly wealth, thinking such wealth would give happiness and power, considers themselves to be the most wise. Such a person would not like to go for Self Realization, because one might lose interest in worldly affairs. Such people are more interested in the world, in spite of the fact that they always undergo fear, confusion, tension, unhappiness, and do not want the spiritual path. But the aim is the same, happiness and peace. Only spiritual truth can give this highest and permanent happiness and Peace. Such people are not interested in the spiritual path will have an illusion that enjoyment is only in the world and its objects, whereas worldly objects, being impermanent, always make a person more miserable.”

Baba
Their mind is not ready to accept the fact of impermanence of the world. It gets scared. Like in Mahabharata, answering the eksha, the angels questions, Yudhishtira, the eldest of the brother, says, The Greatest wonder is everybody knows they have to die, yet they behave and believe as if they are not going to die. This is the greatest surprise or wonder for me. He means, knowingly you don’t want to believe that. Everybody knows it’s impermanent. World is impermanent. Today it is there; tomorrow it may not be there. They don’t want to think about that. They don’t want to believe it. They want to stick on to that one. So this is what happens. You try, you have it, no problem. Say you want to have a house, that is no problem. Everybody needs a house, a shelter to live, whether we build a monastery or a house, it is all the same. But if something happens, you just be ready. When you are in the house, when you are in the monastery, also in the mind, try to remain liberated. You just be ready. If it happens, if it happens. For 50 years we are in the monastery, the ashram, we always were ready. If Swamiji kicks me out, it’s okay, I will go and sit under a tree.That thought was so pleasant and gave us such peace. It’s okay, no problem. So like that, if one can be ready, understanding the impermanence, that’s what Ashtavakra is telling, not me. So you be in the world. You have everything of the world but if it threatens to go, it’s okay, no problem.

Agastya
Baba you have confidence when you realize that happiness is within yourself and you have access to it.

Baba
Yeah, when you know that this is here. For this happiness only, I was trying to look for in the world. Now it is here, so don’t have to worry. Such a person is only a witness to the world and its happenings.

Agastya
Baba, what is the spiritual path, exactly? And is the pursuit of siddhis, superpowers and celestial or other world experiences a spiritual path?

Baba
No, this is again going back to the world. Why do you want siddhis? Why do you want a superpower? So that you can perform such work in the world and obtain things of the world which an ordinary person with ordinary strength cannot perform or obtain. Again, you are going for the world only, for desires. Otherwise, why do you need? You just be an ordinary person. Because you don’t need, you don’t need at all. One time, if you remember, somewhere in Albuquerque or Philadelphia, one person was arguing with me, can you tell me what is in my pocket? I tell, I don’t have to tell. I am not interested to tell that. He insisted. Does it mean that you don’t have the power to tell. What does it matter to you, whether I have that power or not. I’m not interested what is in your pocket. Why should I go for that one? I’ll not do tapas to know what is in your pocket. I have come to know of that Truth. You call me an ordinary person or self realized, both ways don’t matter for me. Then he kept quiet. So like that, siddhis and sadhana.

Baba
That is not the spiritual path. Actual spiritual path is study and becoming aware of the ultimate Truth, which is in the form of spirit, means the infinite which is not visible to the naked eyes. It appears to be there, and it doesn’t appear to be there. To know and become aware of that Truth, that you areThat—that is the spiritual path—that is all, after knowing which, you don’t have to know anything else. After becoming aware of That, you don’t need any power, any siddhis, nothing. You don’t need anything.

Agastya
Basically, Baba nothing that’s in the mind can bring satisfaction or bring lasting peace.

Baba
Yes, if you are really Self Realized, your mind is settled into the Divinity. So where is the desire for anything else? If you need to have a siddhi, you have to resolve. That means, when you are resolving, your mind is not in the divinity. You are away from the Divine. You are slipped away, so you are not Self Realized at all, even if anybody claims.

Agastya
Verse four. “You are not the physical body, or the doer, or the enjoyer. You’re actually pure consciousness, ever the witness, free. Now go about, happy.”

I’ll read your commentary, Baba.

“You must understand that you’re not this physical body. If you concentrate on the consciousness of existence that is emanating from your mind, you will understand that you are that Pure Consciousness. This body is not yours. It has come into existence by birth, and it will disappear by its death. Consciousness is eternal. You as that Pure Consciousness are only a witness and free. You are not involved by any means in the actions of the body, only through the imagination of your consciousness. By permanently achieving this awareness, you can spend the rest of your life happy.”

Babaji
This comes to you only through experience. Only when you achieve Samadhi, total stillness of the mind. When the mind gives up all its imaginations and has become totally quiet, then you experience that you are that Consciousness of Existence. That’s what is mentioned here. I am the Pure Consciousness, the Consciousness of Existence. Your attention, consciousness, has to shift back to its Self. Just now it is so strongly hidden into the body, so whatever the body eats, it would appear to you as if you are eating, whereas you are not eating at all. You look into the mind. The mind can only imagine, as if it is eating. The mind cannot eat, at least this much one can understand. Any human being can understand, if we teach. Mind cannot eat, only through the mouth is the body eating, yet it is the mind which is experiencing the taste of ice cream or any such thing. It is thinking that it is eating. It imagines and enjoys, whereas it is the body that is eating. Even if you watch on a TV screen, somebody eating some sweet, if you start imagining you are also eating, you can enjoy the same way, but yet you are not eating at all. This realization, firmly, with experience, can come when the Samadhi is achieved. Permanently it will stay there and then all desires, attachments, totally disappear. Attachment to the I also disappears when it realizes the I itself is not there. Only I had imagined about myself, and this myself, is not at all I anymore, because it has never existed. It appeared to exist only because I had imagined. This experience comes to you. This is the highest amazing thing. You would wonder, My God, what I was thinking about me, that me was never there at all. Somebody criticized. I felt so hard. I felt like crying. I felt like breaking his head. That I never existed at all, idiot. So there is nothing. When this experience comes, that means the consciousness has shifted back to its Self. From the brain’s clutches, it has now gone back to the Self. This is what technically happens. The mind is in the clutches of the brain’s reflections. That is how the mind experiences. If the mind withdraws, then it regains the form of Pure Consciousness, and consciousness realizes I am simply liberated. I am not attached to anything. I don’t eat anything, I don’t experience anything, and I don’t need anything. That is the important thing, not simply that I don’t experience anything. I don’t need, also. When you don’t need, you are liberated. You are at peace. Nobody can make you kneel down anymore, because you don’t need anything. If the body dies, it’s okay. As a final, that is it, the body will die. After that what will happen? What can you do? You cannot do anything else.

Agastya
What will happen after the body dies, Baba?

Babaji
If the mind is totally silent, it has no desires, it is not going to miss anything of its own imagination and also of the universe that is around us. Then it remains in the Self. It will not be reborn. That means it gets totally liberated, once for all. Otherwise, if there is any attachment to its own imagination or to the world around us, based on that imagination it will again assume another birth and then get to see a world according to its imagination.

Agastya
Thank you.

Baba
It may be a bit complicated or funny, but this is the Truth we saw—the game and play of the consciousness and its imaginations, creativity. That’s all.

Agastya
Verse five,

“Liking or disliking the illusory objects of the world occurs only in the mind, not the True Self. Your pure consciousness, free of confusion, changeless.Go about happy.”

Your comments.

Agastya
“Likes and dislikes of the objects of the world all happen due to the imagination habits of the mind – whatever the mind imagines habitually. As long as this mind is active, it cannot be aware of itself. When this mind becomes totally silent by giving up all imagination habits, then it regains the form of pure consciousness. Until then, one should consider the mind is not the Self. The Self is the source of all knowledge. It is free from any conflict and confusion and is eternal. Through sadhana knowing this Truth, move about happily. As long as this mind is active by sheer imagination, one identifies the Self as the physical body and thus becomes selfish and narrow-minded. This type of attachment is an obstruction to realizing the Self. With determination, if you do sadhana and follow the instructions of a Self-Realized Master, you would be able to overcome ignorance and gain the awareness of the true Self. This gives total, secure contentment and supreme peace. Such a one also develops universal love by becoming aware that the Self is everywhere. This is the true knowledge of the eternal Self.”

Baba, that’s just beautiful.

Baba
When they talk, the imagination is in the mind, not in the Self. I told, whenever an imagination happens, a micro speck comes out of the real Self. This goes on imagining and based on its imaginations it experiences either good or bad, happiness or unhappiness. Simply in the imagination only is it there. Actually in the world, there is neither happiness nor unhappiness. When the mind imagines, then an unhappiness is experienced, or happiness is experienced. But when this mind becomes quiet and goes back to Self, there is neither imagination nor any experience of the imagination, both disappear. The cause and the reason both disappear.

Agastya
What happens to the mind after Self Realization,

Baba
a little bit of internet weakening problem? That’s why I think your video is frozen for a while.

Agastya
Can you hear me now Baba?

Baba
Yes, it’s a voice has come back.

Agastya
What happens to the mind after Self Realization?

Babaji
Simply the actual mind merges with the Self. That is known as Manolaya— means the mind settling down to the Self. When it is up, it was imagining. When it was imagining, we call the same stuff as mind. When the imagination stops we don’t call it mind anymore, we call it Pure Consciousness. That (mind) settles into the Self—that goes back. Just like a wave of the ocean going back to the ocean, it goes back to the Self, and it also stops imagining anything. That’s the liberation. It settles once for all and becomes one with the Self.

Agastya
Baba, I imagine the mind is producing thoughts. Do thoughts no longer arise in a Self Realized person’s mind?

Baba
There is a little bit of mystery in this, an inconclusive mystery. Whether it is the mind which starts imagining, and uses the brain to imagine, because when there is no brain and temporarily it (mind) becomes unconscious, how can it imagine. When the brain is there, as long as it is in the form of mind, it goes on imagining. To one side it appears as if the mind is imagining. If you keenly watch, it appears using the brain the mind is imagining, and the brain is in touch with the universe through its nervous system. It receives messages and passes on the orders. In that process the brain also reflects, a thought or as a vision—watching that the mind catches and registers in itself as if that is happening. Both these, action and reaction are happening. In this it’s so difficult to tell whether the mind can imagine without the help of the brain, or whether the brain came first and made the mind to imagine. It is inconclusive, because if the mind could imagine, then the Self also can imagine. If the Self imagines, it is no more the Divine—it becomes mind again. So as it is, the whole Self never imagines anything. It is in total stillness. These type of mysteries are all inconclusive, so one doesn’t go for these things. Simply settle down into the Self and become quiet. That’s it. The final word is, shut up and keep quiet.

Agastya
I think that was in the Vedas Baba. This could be your sloka that you add to the ancient wisdom.

Okay, Baba, Verse six. “Realizing the Self in all beings and all beings in the Self, free of the sense of ‘I’ and ‘mine’, be happy.

Verse seven. “You are actually that Pure Consciousness in which the universe manifests, like waves manifest on the ocean. Be free of this fever of the mind’s activity”

Reading from your commentary. “All objects, characters, and stories that happen in the mind are nothing but the form of the mind and appear out of pure imagination. This world has appeared by the technique of pure imagination within the pure consciousness of the Self. It is the Self which is in all objects, and all objects are in the Self. Nothing is a different entity from the Self. When you become aware of this truth you will be able to give up the ego that you are a body and overcome the effects of selfish, narrow mindedness. You will be able to free yourself from this ignorance about your Self and realize that you are that all pervasive Pure Consciousness. Thus, abiding in the self, be happy. Just like the waves of an ocean are nothing but the ocean itself, objects of the mind are nothing but the mind itself. You as the Self, are ‘That’ in which the creation manifests. Mind is like a fever which obstructs itself from becoming aware of the Truth of the real Self. Through sadhana you will be able to overcome this fever of the mind and become Self Realized. That’s a lot

Babaji
See today one great truth I am going to tell. I might have spoken of certain theories, like the mind imagining, and everything is in the mind. In the same way, the Self’s imagination created and everything, the entire universe, including the brain or mind, everything is within the Self. This is one theory, only one theory. Like this, a few other theories, some other masters are likely to have given. So in conclusion, none of these theories are conclusive or final. Just give up all these theories and become quiet. That is the realization. If you are interested in Self Realization. If you are interested in Supreme Peace. If you are interested in total liberation, and don’t want to get involved in any happiness or unhappiness, forget about all these theories. Finish. Just keep quiet. Try to become quiet. Your mind is not quiet, that is why it is problematic. Just adopt the technique and practice so that you become quiet. You don’t have to know any theory, because no theory really exists at all. What exists is the Ultimate Truth, the Parabrahman Only that exists. Other than that no other theory really exists. The Parabrahman is all pervaded and absolute, it can play and bring out any theory any time. It’s up to that. No theory is conclusive. Only the Parabrahman is the conclusive. For you, the advice of the Self Realized Master is, as soon as possible get rid of your imaginations and try to become simply quiet. Don’t bother about any theories.

Agastya
Thank you Baba. So all the theories are just perspectives that have been put forth by gurus to try to explain the truth. But it’s kind of like you can have either a theory about peace, or you can have peace. And to have peace, you have to give up the theory.

Babaji
I’m unable to hear anything else. The network bandwidth is very low here.

Agastya
Verse eight.

“Have faith, my dear child, have faith. Don’t be confused in the slightest in this. You are Knowledge itself, Lord of everything, the Pure Self, beyond the illusory universe.” Your comments.

“The master says, ‘Have faith and never get confused.’ Swamiji also used to say, ‘Lose anything, but not your faith.’ Then your focus to observe will never get disturbed. Have faith that you are the source of everything, you are That. Amongst millions of thoughts that you have in your mind, one thing which is not a thought but reality, is the consciousness of existence, a sense of feeling that you exist. Through sadhana, when you’re able to focus all your attention on this consciousness of existence, then the mind is no more a mind. It would have become pure consciousness, able to become aware of itself, and thus achieve supreme peace and contentment. This is what is known as Self Realization, being there in the awareness of the Self.Know that this self is beyond nature, time and space.”

Baba
Yeah, exactly this is what it is. Now one sentence, have total faith and just become quiet. Mentally become quiet. When you are mentally quiet, you are actually quiet. Simply physically if you are quiet, you may not be quiet—you may be very active in your consciousness, mentally. You become quiet means mentally you just become quiet. Have faith to become quiet, don’t doubt yourself. If you become quiet you are ‘That’. You are Realized, you have come to know of everything.

Agastya
All right, Baba, we have 20 minutes. Would you like to take a couple more verses? Or would you like to take questions and answers this? This is a long chapter.

Baba
If they are people who have any questions connected to this topic of self knowledge, then it may. We can take the questions,

Agastya
and if not Baba, we can continue with the verses. And then if people have questions, they can raise, yeah, we have one hand up.

Baba
Priya, you should ask the question connected to self, not about your parents or any other things of the world. Then only you come in, then that has some meaning. It useful to others also.

Priya
Thank you Babaji. Whenever we try to be quiet and work, the thoughts comes up. How to overcome this continuous struggle of again, going back into the mind. Babaji, this is so challenging.

Baba
That’s why sadhana is needed. You have to practice sadhana so that your mind becomes quiet and gives up all imaginations. When there is imaginations, it doesn’t give you the truth, either of yourself or of what is happening around in the world, it gives only what it imagines. So for that you have to do sadhana, meditate, and then you are able to become quiet. If you adopt the technique and just watch in between eyebrows and just do that one.

Usha, please come in,

Usha
Pranam Babaji, yes, yes. My question is, the sadhana we are doing is for Self Realization. Now this Self Realization can happen in the moment, or it can be happening gradually. Does it take time to establish oneself in the Self, so that you don’t go back into the mind and get pulled down?

Baba
You see how it happens—if all the imaginations in the mind can disappear in one moment, that moment realization can happen. But if the imaginations are going to decrease gradually in the process, the realization also takes that much of process to become quiet. It all depends on the mind’s imagination. But when thoroughly you practice a long time meditation, burning all the habits of the mind once for all, then the mind will not crop up and will not go back to the world. It will always remain in the Self.

Usha
So you never use the mind for ordinary transactions, unnecessary transactions?

Baba
Even if you need to use, you will use only that much which is necessary, a very small amount of consciousness, and further, you won’t allow the mind to go into imaginations. It will become quiet again and settle back into the Self. It won’t go back to the world.

Usha
Does it have to do only with the imaginations, or do we also not interfere with other people, and we mind our own business and stay to ourselves?

Baba
If that is possible, that is well and good. The mind is habitual. That’s what the problem is. If it can keep quiet, there is nothing like that.

Usha
Do Self Realized people always stay quiet without interfering with anybody?

Baba
Yes, they don’t make any judgments, actually. They don’t analyze anything. They see that Oneness of the Divinity and remain in that Self.

Usha
And they talk less, right?

Baba
Yes, have you seen me talking too much?

Usha
No, I talk too much.

Baba
Whatever you ask, I just answer. That’s all.

Usha
Okay. Thank you,

Agastya
Baba, there’s a question in the Chat I can read. Okay, okay.

Agastya
“We all have our own perspective of the universe because of the body. When Self Realized, is this perspective somewhat lost, seeing not only the body as the Self, but also the universe.”

Baba
Here what you need to understand is, I am interfering in the question itself. This perspective comes only based on your mental attitude, not according to the body. So for a Self Realized soul, this mental attitude has disappeared. The mind has become pure consciousness and settled into the Self. So that is why there is no attitude for the Self Realized soul. That’s what you need to understand. For an ordinary person, mental attitude is there, and the world appears based on that attitude, not according to the physical body.

Agastya
Okay, Baba, there’s one more in the chat.

“Gurudev, if the last thought is that of our guru, is it the same as no thought, or is this truly the boost I need in the next life to attain your lotus feet?”

Baba
As long as you think there is a last thought that means you as the “I” is still there. Untill then (disolution of the I into the Self) the complete liberation doesn’t happen. And once it is only the guru, then the I thinking a last thought as the guru also disappears. And then you are there.

Agastya
Rajesh, you’re next.

Rajesh
You can hear me? Yes, yes, Good evening everybody. Good evening Babaji. What I notice after the mantra and also after the meditation, is that I get a sensation, and when the sensation happens, I have the thought and the thoughts become so less. I am just focused.

Baba
Good thing. That is a good thing. That means the when the mind is concentrated, that sensation also comes. So you try to increase the timing of the meditation. If one hour you achieve this total silence comes, then the progress will happen. It is going good. Can try to practice more, if possible, and even if it’s not possible to sit in one stretch, at least try to sit for two or three times in a whole day. That will be more beneficial. You will progress more. It is progressive. Continue with that.

Rajesh
Yes. Thank you.

Baba
Okay. Clifford, please come in.

Clifford
Pranams Babaji. In Nirvikalpa Samadhi, when the “I” disappears, does not consciousness of existence also disappear?

Babaji
Yes, that thought disappears. It is there, but there is no thought that you exist. You are true.

Rana

Maharaj, pranam, can you hear me? Yes. Pranam Maharaj. I want to talk about the extreme samskara. Like there is I called Rana Munshi, there is samskara, and there is a playground called my body itself. Now, between all three, I can see that samskara, which I’m born with, trying to control over the ID called Rana Munshi, and I can’t do anything about it most of the time. Like if I were to call the samskara extreme greed or extreme lust, for time being. How we can overcome that, to have more utilization of the body itself, which has been assigned to us by God?

Strongly you practice meditation and try to exercise willpower and reasoning. This is wrong thing. I must overcome. I must change myself. Why is this happening? I cannot be so weak. Shame on me. I must not be like this. I must not allow this wrong samskara to go on. Like that, if you start thinking, you will be able to overcome.

Maharaj sometime it does, sometime it does not.

Baba
Shame is such a thing, then you will become quiet. I pray for you. My blessings are there.

Agastya
No more questions, would you like to take another few verses?

10 minutes is there. One or two verses we will try.

Agastya
Okay, back to the Ashtavakra Gita – Verse Nine.

“The physical body — composed as it is of the natural elements — comes, stays for a while, and then goes. The True Self neither comes nor goes. Why then mourn over the body?”

Agastya
You comment. “It is only the physical body that’s born and dies, that appears in this world and disappears. This body is composed of the ingredients of nature. The Self, as Pure Consciousness, is beyond this nature of time and space. It’s eternal, simply all pervasive and neither comes from anywhere nor goes anywhere. When this is the Truth, what is the need to mourn for the Self, when the body is not the Self at all?”

Babaji
Here a strong black truth is being told bluntly by Ashtavakra. We all know, you also know—this body is born and this body is going to die. A fear occurs if you are attached to the body as me, because secure existence is very important. Insecurity is one of the basic reasons why a person or a mind goes into conflict—conflict born of fear or tension or stress, any such thing. And also when it becomes attached to the surrounding world. Surroundings means this universe, this world. When we become attached to it as mine, then we don’t want to lose that one. What happens if we die? Oh, then we won’t be able to enjoy this. Today we have $500 in the pocket, we can buy anything we want. But if we die we won’t be able to buy anything. What will happen? Will this $500 be useful? Where do we go? What will happen to us? These type of thoughts, when they come then fear occurs.

Babaji
But if we are realized, if we understand we are not this body. That this body has to go. If necessary (we can) imagine and we can get another body. If not necessary, it’s okay. Sometimes people ask me, What if I want to come back to the world? I tell, it’s your choice, I have no problem. So finally, it is your choice, the Master leaves it to choice. Well, these are discussions that we try (to explain), but when you practice meditation, when the mind becomes quiet and does not imagine (you will have peace). The old saying is there, when the mind clings to the idea of death, then it is stressed out. It is fearful always. If that idea doesn’t come at all —why is a child happy moving around, because there is no idea for the child that the body is going to die. If the idea comes, that imagination creates fear. So that’s all. We need to become quiet through the practice of meditation. Just be quiet. Just be quiet as long as the body is there. When one day the body really goes you won’t know anything. There is no fear, no stress, no pain, nothing will be there. As long as the body is there an imagination gives you fear, pain, all these things. At least have faith in this. Still, if it is difficult, remember God.

Babaji
God is the best friend. There is a God. There is a guru. They are the best friends. Imagine that always, then you will get the anchor. At least you divert your attention and there won’t be any fear. That’s what this shloka talks about— knowing that body comes and body goes, that is all.

Agastya
Verse 10. “Let the body last until the end of the universe, or let it end today—in either case there is no gain or loss for You, the Self which is Pure Consciousness.”

Verse 11. “In You, the Self, which is like an infinite ocean, let the waves of the universe rise and fall as they do. There is neither gain nor loss to You.”

Your comments. “In this sloka the Master reminds us, when the Self is unchangeable and indestructible, what difference does it make if the body dies today or goes on until the end of time and space? Birth and death of the body are not going to harm the Self in any way. Just like an object in the mind may appear and disappear, it will not affect the existence quality of the mind in any way. You as the Self are the infinite existence. Let the appearance of the universe happen, created simply based on the imagination technology; and in the same way the disappearance happening should not make any difference to you, just like things appearing and disappearing within the mind do not make any difference to the mind’s existence, which is the combination of consciousness and energy. You have nothing to gain or lose.”

Ah, it’s okay about the lengthy comments of mine today.

Babaji
I will tell you a simple, short example. In your mind a thought comes, and you are attached to that thought. After some time that thought goes and some other thought comes. You become attached to that thought. You won’t be bothering about the thought which has gone out of your mind, disappeared. You won’t be bothering because you know very well that thought was only there as an imagination. That thought has gone and some other imagination (has come). Your mind has become preoccupied with some other imagination, that is why it is not worried about the thought that has gone away. Like that, if you keep your mind engaged to the Divinity, then it will not bother when the body goes, or when the body remains. Nothing will come to the mind. You won’t have any stress at all. It can be as simple, if you practice this. Divert the attention of the mind. That is all that is needed. Then practice meditation and everything will become silent. Then you will know the truth. That’s it, you don’t have to bother about all these explanations and lengthy comments. This is all, just meditate. Just watch in between eyebrows, try to become quiet so that no imagination comes. Any imagination comes, it creates fear unnecessarily. Then why should we imagine? Let us not imagine anything. Enjoy a scoop of ice cream.

Agastya
Baba, even if it is an imagination of something good, then you fear losing it.

Babaji
Yes, just become quiet. Don’t imagine anything. If the imagination is a pleasant one, then you don’t want to lose that one also. Then another fear comes. This happens to many people, everybody almost in life. When there is so much pleasant—we have all our dear ones, loved ones—then suddenly fear occurs. Oh God, this should not change, always life should be like this only, we should not lose. This type of thought comes and the fear occurs, so best to become quiet.

Baba
Okay Subha, do you have really have a good question? If you ask nonsense I will slap you.

Subha
The gap between the thoughts. I hope it was not a stupid question. I don’t know. Babaji, today’s question is spiritual or not, I want to ask, my son is on laptop all the time. My husband is also reading novels on his mobile. My mother says, I have to talk to them, or most of the time I should initiate the talks. How important is it for a girl, the lady of the house, to keep on talking to these digital screen tied people of the house?

The day when you die, neither your husband will come with you, nor your son will come with you. So meditate for yourself. Let them be engaged with their own laptops and their own talking. One time you tell them, what you are doing is wrong. If you get addicted to the laptop like this, you will not achieve anything. I am not going to waste my time with you always talking. I am going to meditate. If you want to meditate, you meditate. If they listen to you, they listen. If they don’t listen to you, you just meditate. Good girl.

Agastya
Baba. There’s one last question in the chat.

Baba
We’ll take this last one. Okay, then final.

Agastya
It would be helpful, Baba, if you could explain what happens to memory after Self Realization. Memory is a long time accumulation of a bunch of imaginations. What happens to that?

Babaji
You see, memory can remain in the brain, but the mind is totally liberated. It doesn’t allow anything to play on it. It has created a password and put all the memory in a folder, and it won’t go to touch unless it is very much necessary for any reason of the world. Such a memory will not trouble a Realized Master, because it (mind) is pure and is not holding any memory. It’s just like a vague dream that is over. Nothing seems to have happened in the past, also. Nothing seems to be happening in the present. There is nothing in the future. Like that, the mind remains liberated. If the brain is holding the memory, as long as it is alive, it will be put in a folder and a strong password (is necessary) so unnecessarily it will not be touched and troubled. That is how a Self Realized Master remains pure and in peace always.

Agastya
Baba with the death of the body and the brain, those memories?

Babaji
The memory goes— previous life memories go. Just like you are born in this body. Suppose, let us assume you were born previously also—many times you are born and you died. Do you remember any of them? You don’t. Sincerely, be sincere. Don’t tell me lies of dreaming or anybody telling you. All these things are myths and imaginations—lies. Nobody remembers, because the previous body’s brain died—with the brain’s death memory is lost. That’s why you have peace. Ask Ashtavakra if you can. If you had met Ashtavakra.

Babaji
Ashtavakra himself tells, forgetfulness of the past is the Divine’s grace. In this one life itself, to manage all the memories is so difficult, emotions. If you try to remember 50 lives and you remember, you will go mad. It’s grace—with the death of the body and brain memory is lost, so don’t worry. Memory is in the brain. You purify your mind and you can have the peace. If necessary only, you can try to remember what happened previous day or previous year or anything. It will be in the brain. If it is not necessaryyou will just be in your peace. Don’t allow all the memories to be playing in the mind. People get stressed out when they are unable to let go of things in the mind. It keeps playing in the mind. That is why they are stressed out. For a yogi, this is not there. The mind is at peace. Nothing has happened at all.

Agastya
So Baba, is the fundamental nature of the person carried on in a subtle body? Is there a subtle body that carries on? If not the memories, if those are all stored in the brain and lost with the death of the brain, is the fundamental character or qualities of that person or soul carried on to another birth?

Babaji
Yes, if you have not cleared all of them in the mind. If the mind is holding, then that will be carried to the next birth, and become the basic nature of observation capacity, attitude, understanding capacity, all these. So many people see the dead body; only one Prince became puzzled, and he became Buddha. The understanding and observation capacity differs from person to person, that is how (what?) one person carries to the next body. But when this body is available, if you can totally purify your mind, you will not be reborn at all. If you are born, the problem is there. If you are not reborn, there is no problem at all. This is the quote of the day.

Baba
So wonderful being with you all. Some lovely questions came, giving me an opportunity of expressing myself more bluntly. I am trying to become like Ashtavakra a little bit sometimes. Don’t mind. It is the truth. What can I say? Ashtavakra has said like that, so I am just trying to repeat the same thing. All the best for you all. May you all be blessed by the Divine guru. Practice meditation. We’ll see you again after a couple of weeks, fortnight in these sessions. All the best.