Meditation, Consciousness of Existence & Self Realization

Meditation, Consciousness of Existence & Self Realization | Q&A with Babaji #183
Recorded on 23 June 2024 with US participants

Agastya
Baba, so meditation, ultimately, is just a procedure to stop thinking and bring our attention onto the Self rather than on the non self. It’s currently, you know, involved in everything the mind’s projecting and not paying attention to itself. Could you comment on what meditation is and how it helps achieve the goals of spirituality or of life?

Baba
Yeah, definitely, if people remember, who would have listened to my talks in the earlier years, the beginning when I said about meditations, basic meaning is you are a. ATTENTION TO so here you need to pay attention to yourself. Attention is not through a thought which is an imagination, but through an observation which can give you the awareness of yourself that is what the meditation means. You meditate upon yourself. So pay attention to be attentive to so here, since time immemorial, I would say that you have forgotten about your real self. You are so preoccupied with your own imaginations that are in the form of thoughts and visions in your mind that you don’t even remember that all the things that are in the mind are your own imaginations, either previously done or presently. You are into that, or you have a futures, anxiousness, or some imagination. So all these combined gives you lot of stress, unhappiness. So this is a significant point. He Why do you need to meditate? The next question that will be coming that means, why do you meditate? Why you need to become aware of yourself so that can give you the supreme peace, enjoyment happiness at all times, helping you to overcome all stress and unwanted thoughts. So that is the basic idea of meditation. So first step is that you need to silence your mind. That’s what I keep talking quietening your mind. For that, the technique is given that you just watch in between eyebrows, but no target is told. What is it that you are supposed to watch is not told. Just go on watching the front portion, whether darkness is there, whether thoughts are there, whether visions come and no visions. But mentally you just don’t try to think, why is this? Why not that? What is it that has to happen, all these things, do not bother. Just keep watching. So that is the basic idea of meditation.

Agastya
So in summary, the meditation is to bring the attention onto the your Self, rather than onto all the imagined things that are in the mind.

Baba
Yeah. Futher, a few more points to tell, your mind is made up of consciousness and energy. Consciousness means, wherever you apply your consciousness or your mind, you become aware of that thing. Now when my simple example always has been when I am talking, if you apply your mind, if you watch me, then you can become aware of what I am trying to convey. Otherwise, your mind could be going, running away somewhere else, paying attention to something else. So just now, your mind is too preoccupied paying attention to its own imaginations that are in the form of thoughts and visions that you need to get rid of. That’s why you need to just watch when you are watching you are not thinking. Then slowly all the thoughts and visions will disappear, will dissolve, will evaporate. So that is when automatically, your mind attention turns to itself, means your attention to turns to yourself.

Agastya
So Baba, you’ve said, you and the mind are not different, could elaborate on that. The distinction between mind and what appears in the mind. A lot of us think, my mind is whatever I’m thinking, whatever ideas or imaginations are in my mind. But, I think you are saying that’s not the mind. Those are the projections that the mind is creating. The mind is not thoughts or imaginations.

Baba
Yeah, so some of the points I’ll tell pay attention. Thoughts are in the mind. Mind itself is not a thought. Simply, you have not seen the mind as it is in through your naked eyes, and that’s why you don’t know its location, its color, it. Shape, or anything simply with the thoughts and visions. You recognize that you have these thoughts in your mind. Your mind wants to do this. I want to do this like this. You keep on talking whenever you talk. So now you see if it is a physical body, you can show some part of the body. This is my hand, and this is my legs. This is my face. These are my eyes. But whereas the mind is infinite, it is beyond form and formlessness, it has no form at all. So as you yourself, has not seen in the naked eyes, how can you show this is my mind. But one clue is that there you feel in the mind about yourself also that is coming from the mind. The source of the feeling of yourself is in your mind. Only that means that mind itself is you yourself, but just now you are not aware because of your preoccupation with your own imaginations. I have always told that amongst millions of thoughts that you might have in your mind, one thing is the consciousness of your own existence, which is not a thought, it is a reality. If it was a thought that we could have told it is simply an imagination of yourself, that you exist. You really don’t exist. But truth is not like that you do exist, and you feel that always, you have this consciousness of existence. That is what is beyond thought. That means that mind is nothing but you. That’s what I keep telling eventually you will realize when you practice meditation, when thoughts and visions disappear, when your mind becomes quiet. That means you will realize it was you who was imagining, and now you who have become quiet. Now you who is in peace, and you who has the enjoyment, who has the happiness.

Agastya
So Baba, with meditation you can quiet the mind. And then when the mind becomes quiet, it becomes conscious of its own existence.

Baba
Yes exactly, that’s what you will thoroughly experience when you are able to make all thoughts and visions disappear from your mind just by watching. Where as you cannot make yourself disappear, you will always feel that consciousness of existence, even in deeper Samadhi. When you are able to stop all your thoughts and visions, then you will see that Consciousness of Existence is always there. It does not disappear. So that’s why we insist your brain needs to be alert and it must not go to sleep. If it goes to sleep, then you also become unconscious of surroundings and your own existence. If the brain is alert, then you will be conscious of your own existence. So that is the clue that you are nothing but the mind and mind is nothing but you. You as the soul.

Agastya
So that’s when you realize that you’re not a body, a thought, an idea or an ego.

Baba
Yeah, you’re not simply an idea or a ego or a thought or any such imagination. That’s why I keep telling you are much beyond the birth and the death of your own physical body. You need to know yourself.

Agastya
So, Baba, there are two things, two words their, consciousness of existence. So is this existence equated to the Para Brahman, to the absolute and consciousness equated to knowing. That would translate to knowingness of eternal existence.

Baba
Eventually, yes. In the beginning, for sake of understanding we try to use the terminology – you becoming conscious of your Self. You can become conscious of your thoughts, but actually, when you reach your real Self, you are much beyond the consciousness or any such thing, everything disappears. With that the “I” also disappears. As long as the “I”is there, the ego, then you want to know about yourself. You want to become aware of yourself, then this consciousness is the clue. You have to become conscious of yourself. Means you become aware of your own existence. “Oh, this is how I exist”. This much you can come to know, but you cannot explain it to anybody. It is something like that old dialog, you will come to know about it, but you cannot make others know about it. So it’s something like that, you will know, but you cannot make others know.

Agastya
Yeah, well, it’s like you feel love for someone. You know the love, but you can’t (give them your experience). You can try to let someone know, but words and explinations are not the same.

Baba
Exactly such is the wonder,

Agastya
Baba how important is discernment, developing discernment? It seems to happen automatically as your practice advances, the discernment between real and unreal, what’s lasting, and what’s impermanent? Is this something we should try to cultivate, because it seems to bring detachment from a lot of things that will carry your mind away, and keep you occupied in mental processing.

Baba
You see, just like when you are watching a movie, as long as your consciousness considers that movie to be a reality, as solid, and you are attached to that movie so much, all the happening of good, bad, happiness, unhappiness would appear as if it is happening to you. Because you are attached to that one you consider that as a reality. The moment you realize that it is not real, it is only a movie, your attachment also disappears. So with that, happiness and unhappiness, you rise above that level.

Agastya
Yeah Baba, getting older. I like getting older. You know, it’s like the movies have come to an end. Those ideas have all kind of burst, and it makes you really focus on what that is, that’s permanent, the consciousness of existence. It helps, create some detachment. Baba, would you comment on the fact that without consciousness, the body is of no value. It’s discarded. So really that, you know it’s demonstrates that it’s consciousness which gives value to the body.

Baba
Yeah, you see you as the consciousness is conscious of your surroundings, your body and this world through this body, with the help of the brain. So once you lose that consciousness, means that is withdrawn due to either the death of the brain or in meditation, if you withdraw yourself from the clutches of the brain and go into Samadhi. Then the body is alive, but you are totally unaware of the surroundings and the body. And if the brain dies, also others, like medical doctors, medically, they will declare, the man has passed away. Person is no more. He is dead, but the consciousness becomes unconscious for a while, until it assumes next body, next incarnation. So this is what, a simple clue of the death that happens. So consciousness is important, that is what is recognized as the prana, as the life current, in different terminologies, in so many ways. So people have misconceptions, myths also. So this is the real life current.

Agastya
So the the illusion continues until you discover the truth.

Baba
Yeah. Now you have to discover about yourself as the Consciousness and not as the body, not as anything else, not as the wisdom also. See, wisdom is important to this world. Until you simply remain in your Self, only until then you require wisdom, that you need to return to your Self. Once you return, then you discard the wisdom also, it is not necessary; just like the ladder is no more necessary once you are on the terrace.

Agastya
Baba, is the consciousness which makes perception possible considered the Atman and That which is aware of the consciousness considered the Brahman (or vice-versa)?.

Baba
Yes, all different terminologies in different ways, has been told by different teachers. It is all the same. In fact,

Agastya
It is said that a Ghani has no design because he’s not an individual. There’s no design, there are no limitations, no boundaries, no definitions, because Gani is really not an individual. Could you address that idea? Is it true?

Baba
Yeah, as long as the “I” is there a need for I arises and we go on looking for everything. I need this, I need that, I need this one. Whatever the body needs, we go on imagining that we need that, we need that, I need, I need, like that you go on. Once that disappears, that “I” is no more there, it is simply a contentment, and an existence consciousness, awareness and no I is there, totally. So finally, it is neither there, nor not there. It’s like it is there and it’s not there. One important, it may appear very funny or strange. If there is nothing there is no problem. Because there is a goal, a problem arises for you. Somebody should not rob you, if you don’t have anything, who can rob you of anything.

Agastya
Yeah, so as long as we attach our happiness and security to something impermanent, then I guess we’ll always feel insecure.

Baba
Yeah, If am there, this world is mine and I don’t want anybody to trouble this world. If I is not there, everything loses its meaning, finally.

Agastya
But what you’re saying is a self realized person can live in that state of freedom while living in the world and having the body. Yeah,

Baba
You see, as long as this body needs to be with you, all things are needed, so we need to take care. Otherwise, for me nothing is there?

Agastya
What do you mean? Nothing is there?

Baba
Ammaji says You are right. I guess

Agastya
I’m waiting for the answer, Baba. I guess you’re giving it to me right now. Um, okay, well, maybe, maybe one more. I sure Victoria has a question. Oh, hold on, Baba, hold

Baba
Okay,

Victoria
Baba. Before the Zoom calls, we always talk about question and answers, and this was one that was discussed. Does the universe, the world, the manifest world, exist outside of me, outside of my “I”? Is there an existence of the world beyond me, when I’m the one spinning it, so to speak. I’m the one creating the world.

Baba
Actually, this universe you get to see outside your body is inside you only, because currently you have you have imagined yourself as a small “I” called the mind, then this universe appears to be outside you. But if you remember and you reconnect yourself to that highest consciousness, at one time you were there before you came out of that, this universe is within you. Just like everything that is in your mind is within you only, when you imagine. So the mind’s potency is very little. That’s why a small, short time dream appears within your mind with the imagination and this universe is a longer dream for the mind with the identity of “I”. But for the higher consciousness of yours, it is equally like a dream. It exists inside you.

Victoria
On a different note. At the end of the arathi you proclaim, Jai, Sri, Sri, you know, and it always touches me so deeply, because there’s so much mastery and command and reverence and gratitude. You’re coming from such a place that it always, I don’t know, it always just touches me deeply. And so today, when you started us in meditation, and you said, you know, to quiet the mind, silence and you are the mind, there’s no difference, something in meditation that you said, it just helped me to be more, do it or die like. I have the the power from the self, to silence the mind, to be focused, to just watch and don’t be wishy washy, and it just, I don’t know, there was something about that inspired me to be more of who I am, and be really determined and there’s that power there.

Baba
Yeah, I was talking, first I told the example of Buddha, that when he was walking in the forest the robber came and asked Buddha to stop. Buddha said, I stopped long ago. When are you going to stop? Same thing. I said, Ki, I have become silent. I am inviting you all to become silent here so that you also can enjoy that Self, that Supreme Peace.

Victoria
Yeah, well, thank you, Baba, because hearing this Truth and about knowing the Self has been transforming my life to make me want to go for what’s permanent. And so these zoom meetings in this constantly going over, over, over, the truth, the highest pitch of truth, is definitely motivating, I’m very grateful, and I know everyone on the call is too. So we’ll start other questions right now. Thank you, Baba.

Agastya
One question related to that. Baba is what we’re doing called shravana, kind of hearing about the Truth.

Baba
Yeah, listening is a shravana. Means when the guru teaches, that is known as upadesha, the master’s teaching. So upadesa, then you need to listen to that with apt attention, that is shravana. Then Manana. Manana means you absorb it into the inner layers of your mind, adapt it into your mind. Means just by listening, like we tell ki, listening from one ear and giving up from another ear, it should not be like that. When you listen, it should go to your head, like that. That is manana. Nididhyasana is then practice, adopting such methods recommended by the master, then you achieve the Truth. Thank you. Alright, so take some questions.

Yeah, so we can take questions if they are, it looks Clifford is the first in the queue. Yeah, Clifford, please come in.

Clifford
Okay. Can I do you hear me? Babaji,

Baba
Yes, yes, I can.

Clifford
I have a knowledge question, and then a practical thing as a second part. But first the knowledge question. During Jangama Dhyana, while we’re watching, if we understand that anything we see, recognize, visualize or imagine, is not real, should we just take the attitude “Don’t bother”, I want the truth only. Just anything, any image, any vision, any color, any imagination, if we understand and recognize this is not the truth. Give me the truth only, will that attitude help to eliminate this constant thinking?

Baba
Definitely, you think and just become quiet. You think like this and become quiet, it will be helpful, definitely.

Clifford
So, so the the truth is, we have to just take the position. Don’t bother with anything that I recognize in in by watching, because it doesn’t have any reality value and truth, yeah,

Baba
you are assuring yourself not to get attracted to anything which really does not exist at all.

Speaker
Yes, Baba. I have two questions. The first is, you know, I did a lot of acting, and I always knew the ending of the script, and now I’m changing my script constantly. I don’t know if it’s destiny or karma, but the problem is I’m so scared because I don’t know the end of the script. So what do I do?

Baba
It is you who is writing the script. So it is you who can end the script. You don’t have to know the end at all. You simply end the script and know yourself. That is what is needed. Then the script ends,

Speaker
okay, and the other question is, there’s consciousness and energy, but where is the light?

Baba
It is like the radiance without light. Radiance is there, but the light is not visible because it is infinite. Both consciousness and energy are beyond any visible light.

Speaker
So it’s an unvisible light. Yeah, okay,

Baba
done, okay, next,

Agastya
Baba can I ask something related to that? The experience is that, as you start kind of transcending, or the world, the universe, starts dissolving, that you can start to feel like you’re immaterial, but you are the light. There’s still the “I” there, and I am the light. That’s an experience, you know, that you can have, and that light is blissful. I think you’ve said in the past, you have said, and that was profound to me, you said that Supreme Peace is beyond the light and the bliss. So that (event) is still within the realm of an individual experience. That is an experience, so you’re not there (silent mind) yet. Could you enlighten me on this?

Baba
Yeah exactly, you see a light is mentioned symbolically by many teachers to talk about the radiance. You know that is infinite, but people want to recognize it, a light that is visible, like an electric light. There is energy, but the electric light is visible. Energy is not visible there. Only through the things that energy operates do we recognize this is because of such and such energy. So like that, this is also energy is there, Consciousness is there. The clue is that when you become aware of your Self, when you stop thinking, then you become aware that there is a consciousness. You become aware, but you don’t see it through naked eyes. Everything we expect to see through naked eyes. There are so many hundreds of things which we cannot see through naked eyes. We need to have a better telescope, better this, better instrument. But here the instrument is You, yourself, that has to become aware of your Self.

Agastya
Baba, the feeling that you are the light, that you are omnipresent and that you are the light, it seems to be as if the consciousness and energy is manifesting as light, as kind of omnipresent light.

Baba
Yeah, then the imagination comes that some light should be visible, just like the sun. Like in Gayatri Mantra, “tat savitur varanyam”, means that truth is equivalent to the light or the power of the Sun. The Sun emanates light that is visible to our naked eyes. Daylight happens, all these things we get to see. So that has been used as a symbolic example. That is also radiant like this, not simply an inert (thing) with nothing.

Agastya
Thank you. Next question,

Baba
Mrs Tajalli, please come in.

Speaker
Yeah. Om, nama Shivaya, Guruji, I have a very practical question. I know you recommend sitting in meditation for an hour with the concentration between the eyebrows. Now, when I do that, my eyes turn up slightly, and I start feeling pain in my, you know, in that movement of the eyes. So am I doing something wrong? Because that’s why I can’t really sit that long in that position.

Baba
A couple of things you need to understand. You need to have enormous patience, because mind is very slippery and infinite. You cannot simply tie with a rope. So sometimes, when you are likely to be rushed and you want to force your eyes to come here, so it easily doesn’t come into one direction. Eyeballs move parallelly, so slowly and steadily, if you watch the front portion, even if you are unable to come into the center of the eyebrow, it’s okay. In due course of time, slowly, slowly, it will come. So if you do that one slowly, skillfully, with all the patience, then there would not be any such pain. You will enjoy the play or your own efforts.

Speaker
So it’s just a matter of consistent practice and patience and trusting, trusting in the process.

Baba
Right from day one of my teaching, I have always emphasized three mantras: dedication, discipline and patience. Dedication means you set a priority and sit every day, without fail. You understand the need of it. And if you are disciplined, every day you will sit at the same time. Then you will be drawn to it, a pull will be there. And you need to have patience, because mind has gone out of control since time immemorial. So that’s why it will take some time. So Have patience. It will come.

Speaker
Thank you, Guruji, thank you

Baba
Wonderful. Uh, Alex, please come in.

Alex
Good morning Babaji, thank you so much. Um, I have lived what I consider a fairly rich life, not so much financially, but just so many different kinds of experiences that brought me closer to spirituality and just appreciation of joy and bliss and ecstasy and all that sort of stuff. What I’m wondering is, if someone has had a very simple life, not much going on, nothing to brag about or whatever, and they become self realized, one with the ocean, that drop, the drop that they are, enters the ocean. And you compare that to someone who’s had this life with all these experiences, and they become self realized, and the drop that they are becomes one with the ocean. Is that experience of the ocean different for those two people, or once one’s drop becomes part of the ocean it is the same experience, no matter what?

Baba
It is the same, the truth is one, no matter whatever. So there are different paths. One would have taken this path, another would have taken another path. Simply on the way different experiences might be there, depending on their own minds, imaginations, acquired habits and tendencies. But once they reach the Truth, the Truth is the same and one, that experience is same for everyone.

Alex
Okay, thank you.

Baba
Subha. Please come in.

Speaker
Yes, Purnam, Babaji. Purnam, my question. It’s not my question. It seems like Babaji’s mind is like from infinity to infinity. Babaji doesn’t feel the mind as itself. It is, you feel like from infinity to infinity, is it so?

Baba
Yeah, it is infinite. It is the quietness, the Self. I feel the Self, not in thoughts, just I am silent.

Speaker
Yes. And my second question, like in 2000 there was a very big earthquake, and I was meditating at that time. So everyone in Delhi got out of their house, but I kept on meditating. It was very high. But now when I meditate, and somebody came in the house, and it was my husband, but I felt it to the thief, and I had, I had to open my eyes. Like I was meditating, and somebody came in the house, and I thought, it’s a thief and but it was my husband. So is it a difference, after 24 years, like I’m meditating? So age is a difference. Age is a barrier. What is the barrier?

Baba
You see, age is one factor, that mentally you become weak, also, your attachment makes (a barrier). When the earthquake came, you did not bother. When the husband came, you bothered. That is the different. When your husband comes also, if you just don’t bother, you don’t have to open the eyes. If you don’t bother, what is happening, then you don’t have to open the eyes. It’s all depends to which you are attached to, depending on that only you bother.

Speaker
Yes, Babaji, but I thought it’s a thief who had come on.

Baba
It is an imagination. So you are attached, you are worried about your house. A thief should not come. An earthquake is alright. So that’s why you got stumped. So if you think, let the thief come and take away anything, or you at least bolt the house, lock your house, securely sit inside and meditate. That is simple. okay. Pn, please come in.

Speaker
Pranam Babji. Thank you so much, Babaji. I just wanted some blessings for my meditation, my peace. Of mind and my father, Baba Ji, you know everything, so I really want you to please, Baba Ji, have a blessing.

Baba
We will always pray. Ah, Susan, do you have another question you are raising? Come in please. You have to unmute.

Speake
Yeah, okay, Baba, I realized I can no longer write the script for my life. So now do I have to depend totally on trust. I can’t write the script anymore for my life. I keep on changing it, or it changes. So now I’m at a place where I no longer know what’s going to happen. So do I have to now depend on trust?

Baba
Yeah, you see, you have to watch your mind. The script is written by your mind. That needs to be stopped. If you simply say that I cannot write any script, that doesn’t mean your mind will not write any script. It would be writing. You have to be watchful. That’s what is meditation. Mind has to stop writing the script. Then you are there. Trust that you will stop writing scripts. Narasimha please come in.

Speaker
Namaste Babaji, Can you hear me Baba?

Baba
Yeah, I can hear you.

Speaker
Okay. Hari OM? Baba, the story that you began with Van galimula, I think it’s Angulimala,

Speaker
That’s a very fascinating story. I’ve been fascinated by that story for many years, because here you have essentially a serial killer who is qualified to receive the Buddha, and who took initiation from the Buddha and transformed his life. But if you read in the teachings, there is so much Moral Development, following of yamas and niyamas that is meant to happen. You can read very terse descriptions of how a student has to be in order to have it, so that they can meet the teacher and receive them. So I guess a lot of that is just conceptual. It’s just concepts and ideas, and the teacher will reach out to whoever the teacher wants to reach out to. It’s got nothing (to do with). The moral aspect of it is not as hard and fast as it might seem,

Baba
Important is that it matters the ripeness of the student, of the person. Like Ramakrishna Paramahansa used to tell if the wood is totally dry, you just need a spark so that it catches fire. If the wood is wet, no matter you bring out some big fire, big fire, it won’t catch it properly. This is what we have to understand by reading Angulimala story. Perhaps he was ripe somewhere. That one sentence struck him. What is this he is talking? He (Buddha) says he stopped long ago, and I have not yet stopped. He was interviewed, so he came, he surrendered, he spoke to Buddha. And Buddha explained about the mind, and he was impressed. This is something new, I never heard of it. I’ve been only killing for my food. All such impermanence, everything Buddha spoke, impermanent of the world, impermanence of the body. He got transformed in no time like that. So he was ripe. So this thing happens rarely, rarely to some people, when they are ready. It might be extremism. They might be on one side, extreme. Suddenly they can come down this side. That means another thing, in my observation, they might be very ripe and extremely sharp in the mind. Simply, they were using it for wrong purpose. Once they realized the right purpose, they could achieve that thing, beautifully.

Speaker
So they’re going over to that right purpose, the understanding, the unfoldment in that dharma that transmutes all of the negativity of the previous actions.

Baba
Yes, perfect understanding, when it penetrates the inner layers of your mind, then this transformation happens.

Speaker
So it’s not necessarily so that very bad and harsh things would have to happen to that person. It’s inner purification takes care that.

Baba
Yeah, not necessarily. You see, even for Buddha himself, he was a prince. He was never allowed to come out of the palace, so that he should not see the miserable conditions of the world. He should live happily. But once he saw it, before that he had not experienced any miserable conditions, but when he saw somebody miserable, with old age, with illness and a dead body, it transformed him. He started thinking, why should we die? Why should we become old? And he became restless until he got the answer. He became a Buddha.

Speaker
so I think that the implication of, you know, Buddha was shielded from so much suffering, but nowadays, nobody is shielded from suffering. It’s everywhere for everyone.

Baba
You’re right. Still, if it doesn’t occur, it doesn’t occur. You see, that’s what we tell. Like in a cemetary, a guard will be there. He would get to see hundreds of people coming every day, the dead bodies coming, and burial happening. This that everything happened. Nothing may occur in that person’s mind. But if one person who had not seen any dead body, one day, suddenly he gets to see a dead body, he might start wondering, why. So it might strike the mind. One time that death thought comes, he might become restless until he knows the secret of birth and death. That that makes difference from person to person

Speaker
That’s very mysterious. Baba

Baba
Wonderful, nice, yeah, Mr Pradeep Kumar, please come in.

Speaker
Yeah. I am very happy, because recently I’m introduced to you through this Facebook. I was surfing the Facebook, and somehow I connected to you. While meditating, my breath becomes constant, but at the same time I feel sleepy.

Baba
It is important that the brain should not go to sleep. That’s why usually we advise when you sit for meditation, you should have taken sufficient, rest on one hand. Another thing, your stomach also should be clear. There should not be any wind formation, indigestion of food, all these things, After you have intake of any food, you should have given at least a couple of hours to practice meditation. Try to have lighter meals whenever you are hungry, if not two times, you can have four times, but little little smaller meal at a time is recommended, so then you might feel better. Still, if you feel sleepy, you can get up and wash your face and then come back and see. You’ll feel better.

Speaker
It’s not that much sleepy Swamiji. Certain visions come at the same time, but I neglect them. That is one thing. And second question is, don’t we have the guru, or the form we like, in the mind to get the same sort of feeling?

Baba
What same sort of feeling means?

Speaker
The ultimate joy, or the bliss which we get through meditation, can’t we get it by imagining the guru?

Baba
It depends on your Faith and devotion. It depends on your faith. Ramakrishna Paramahamsa said, faith in the name of Lord and Guru can work wonders. So if you cultivate such a faith that can work for you, and the devotional path also.

Speaker
yes, so one more little out of curiosity, and doesn’t your guru flash in your mind while you meditate?

Baba
Now He is always there. He need not come in that physical forum. Everything is guru for me now that (form) was when he used to teach me. Yeah, in the form of joy (He) is always there. And whatever is there, that is the Guru, because the Guru is one with the Parabrahma.

Speaker
Thank you very much. Pranam Guruji,

Baba
yeah, Lalitha, please come in.

Lalita
Hello, Babaji. So a couple of questions ago, when you’re talking about the Buddha and the thief, etc, it brought up a question. What role does free will and fate play in our coming to the guru, and does faith play a different role depending on where you are on the spectrum of your development toward the spiritual?

Baba
Faith will give you a Free will, means total self confidence. The trust in yourself, that the Guru is here with me, within me, the guru is there always. You will be able to feel that. So that’s why faith is the first word that is taught. My guru Shiva Baliyogi taught, lose anything in the world but do not lose faith. So that’s how faith and this Free Will are interconnected to each other. Suddenl your voice has gone down to check whether you have muted again.

Lalita
Okay, so in other words, faith is interconnected with free will.

Baba
Yes, yes.

Lalita
Very good. Thank you.

Thank you, Baba.

Baba
Agastya, it looks the questions have come to an end. It was another wonderful evening with you all, lovely questions. And always the questions that you start with I think inspire many people to come with the question of that level. And it’s so wonderful.

Question
Baba, I meditated regularly for many years. Lately I have lost my motivation.

Baba
What is that question? Is there any question on the chat or what it is?

Agastya
I lost my motivation to meditate and find it hard to make myself sit for this. How do I find motivation again? How can I get inspired to meditate?

Baba
Remember Swami Vivekananda said, Arise and awake, stop, not till the goal is reached. How can you lose the motivation? Have that confidence that you can do it. Never give up until the last breath of life, if you want, you can see God.

Speaker
Pranams Baba, I have a question. All of our thinking is we have a small thinking because we’re the droplet. But our society, at least in the West, is just very goal oriented, and we’re trained to have goals and New Year’s resolutions. And for example, one of my goals was to find a teacher, and then Swamiji immediately came into my life, and then you so that was an example of a goal that was aligned with the divine. But how do we know when our other goals are, or if they’re just small thinking, or should we not have goals and just meditate? I’m really having difficulty because I want to accomplish so much in the short lifetime. I’m really motivated, but I don’t want to get in my own way.

Baba
You see, first thing you did right, it’s important to find the right guru. It is the guru who will tell you about the final goal that you need to reach. Like the philosophy is in Kabir Das poem itself, when the Guru and God both come and stand in front of me. If that happens, To whom should I prostrate? Then the mind comes out of confusion and tells, oh, my guru, let me prostrate to you, because it is you who told me about God. So that is there. That’s the final goal. Other goals in this world, you can set any number that you feel like you want to have. You want to have $100,000 you want to have 100 buildings, you want to have anything. These are all the worldly things, but the guru recommends the highest goal, after achieving which you don’t have to achieve anything else. That is spiritual truth. Thank you, Baba. And that’s brilliant.

Speaker
And secondly, I’m having a very hard time, and this might be my imagination. I’d like you to let me know if it is. I meditate in the morning, and it’s a deep, wonderful meditation, and I have to go right into work dealing with hundreds of people, these busy events. And I’m finding the more I meditate, the less I want to do that. Is that my imagination?

Baba
yeah, one of such imaginations keep coming. You need to be careful to overcome such imaginations, then the truth will be revealed.